With all due respect oldxcdude, are you actually reading other the other posts or just wandering aimlessly throughout this thread, seriously?
I explained why and I will do it again. If you were running sub 3 hour pace with a group for mile after mile, you'd get to know those around you and they would know you. You don't want to be remembered. Still with me?
If you start with a delayed start, the odds are much better that no one else is going to remember you as going off the course here or there. Even if they did, they aren't going to see you again because you are finishing an hour or so before them. The odds increase because those you end up in front of will never remember passing you, because they didn't.
To figure this guy out, you have to think like him.
If you were going to cheat and run 2:53, would you start with those runners at that pace and possibly be asked what's your goal, your name, or what do you want to hit halfway in? Then you would be remembered, right? You don't want that so you start back and slowly pass people until it's time for exit stage left.
Remember, to cheat, you, I or anyone would have to leave the course somewhere and get back on somewhere else and as obvious as that is, it is that simplistic.
I saw a guy years ago rip his number off in disgust at about 16 miles in a marathon and then vanish. But later I saw him cross the finish line as I waited for a friend to finish. When he stopped, he didn't want a ride, nor did he want to talk, and neither does this guy. He doesn't want to be remembered by anyone leaving or re-entering.
It's like cheating on a test without studying. He didn't train enough or more than likely isn't capable of running such a time at 49, so he shortens the test and increases his odds by wearing different equipment, as in shoes, shorts, a hat, sunglasses, etc....
Notice his body weight, stride, etc....when he is running compared to those around him. A 2:51, right. Where are his legitimate 10k road races in at least 34 plus range? I have yet to see one. Nothing adds up and it won't.
Instead of cheating at 3:30 pace, he got greedy and bit off more than he could chew, as someone said he apparently did at the Bobby Crim 10 miler, running a sub 57 and then having to claim he took a wrong turn when he was either spotted or new it would not pass.
Don't over think this. If he has an accomplice or not, his practice of starting back in the pack is part of the illusion, aka his Method of Operation. If he started in the front, he would be swallowed up quickly and not be able to maintain that pace for very long. Check out the Bay Shore Marathon course. Talk about easy.
Carry on Mates!
off course Oscar
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 1:30PM - in reply to off course Oscar
Much as I dislike cheating and cheaters, all of this has me wondering ... how fast could -I- finish a marathon without getting busted, if I really applied my ingenuity? Purely as an exercise, of course. You know, the original hacker ethos.
Instead of "Stop Kip" it would be more like "Inspired by Kip."
Study of K.Litton Running
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 2:21PM - in reply to 21 violins
Yes, there is a photo of him past the line, yet in the photos of the guys that he finished next to, there are no photos of him right before the line. You would think that there would be something in the photos of the guys that crossed just seconds ahead of him. Yes, I am looking at photos by clock time. Kip had a clock time of 35:15. The guys that I am referring to had clock times of; 35:08, 35:11, 35:13, and 35:14.[/quote]
FOUND HIM. but this looks like it was AFTER the finish line. but still that's him after a 29:10 (NET) 8K
I think the whole case of KIP proves problems of chip timing
Study of K.Litton Running
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 2:25PM - in reply to silly old fossil
Factor in this - both the short distance races he has run on here BAA 5km (17:17) and Shamrock 8km (29:40) he started at the back of crowded races, so factoring in navigating around people those times would have been somewhat faster if he had started on the 2nd row.
correct but that's a 29:10 8K at Shamrock :), and I believe it was the day before his Shamrock Marathon (w/ outfit change), just like the 17:17 5K was the day before his Boston Marathon
another shoe guy
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 2:31PM - in reply to Study of K.Litton Running
I ran shamrock last year and finished about 1 min after this guy supposedly did. Given his splits and his start time he would have had to pass me in the second half. I only saw 5 or 6 marathoners in the second half. I remember being passed by 3 guys who I had run the first 10 miles with. There is no way this guy ran a 2:53 that day.
Study of K.Litton Running
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 2:35PM - in reply to Study of K.Litton Running
This was at Rock n Roll Arizona. dont get me wrong - This MAY BE A LEGIT PERFORMANCE FROM KIP. but (to me) (just my opinion) it still looks a bit fishy because a lot of times I've looked him up for his finishing pics and he's nearly walking at the end of a number of races....this one he's walking before the end of the race. he's probably not so concerned that the clock is still ticking and he's about to come across in a 2:51:21 NET time (6:32pace)....
Also, I looked up his pics at 2009 Bay SHore Marathon ( MA) which he negative split by a lot (did the 1st half in 1:30(6:53pace) and the 2nd half of BayShore in 1:22:45(6:11pace). Now BayShore is a fast course but that raises some questions in my mind as to why someone would race like that. At The finishing pics at Bayshore he looks like he's in fairly good shape and flying in at a low 6ish pace.but again I just question the negative split and as to why someone would do that, not to mention the typical delayed start
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 2:38PM - in reply to sldkfjasdiu
Not being a jerk, but that's why I posted the Bayshore Marathon comment and yes, it's in Michigan.
I figured with all the info out there, it was already known what he did there. That guy did NOT drop 42 seconds per mile for the second half of the marathon on that course. Over 10 seconds per every 1/4 of a mile, anyone near by would have been talking about him to this day, but they aren't because it's awful hard to do when the person doing it is in ghost like form, aka doesn't exsist.
No one, I repeat no one runs the second half 42 seconds per mile faster than the first half. That second half time is probably fairly close to his open 10k pr. He may look good at the end, but if you jumped in that close to the finish line you'd look go to.
It's all a marathon shell game to this clown and like Oscar Miranda, I doubt you will see him running much anymore if at all. If you do the poor results will be blamed on "being injured". Smoke and mirrors.
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 3:34PM - in reply to Study of K.Litton Running
The bayshore course is infamous for cheaters. Its an out and back course up a peninsula. Theres a mat down at the half way but after theres no mats. He couldve easily ran the first 13.1. Then theres a few bathroom areas with lots of people and some with very little people but all these areas have streets that go over to the other main road on the peninsula. He couldve have easily had someone picked him up and drive him back down the peninsula and go into a portapotty after looking like a rec runner and get his stuff back on and get back onto the course. Theres not many race officials on this course. Also the half marathons that are slow would be in his way there would be alot of traffic finishing up the final couple miles.
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 3:56PM - in reply to mp coach
I do find it odd the site, like worldrecordrun.com, is off-line.
supposedly worldrecordrun.com is off-line because it had some marathon performances listed there where he had later been DQ'ed, plus there was a question as to where the donations were going (to his website/CF) or something. ive never seen the site, since it was taken offline last Fall during the 1st LetsRun Kip thread.
off course Oscar
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread1/8/2011 4:57PM - in reply to mp coach
So true. Want a Boston qualifier, run there. Enough gaps and no man land area that cheaters are attracted to it like a huge magnet. The porta potty theory is probably just as possible as any of the others and could very well be true. To say it would be easy is an understatement.